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[mavrothal]

Back in October I was referring to the F14 as good and with potential but not for everyone yet. Since then things have moved along well and now F14 builds are an official stream OLPC 11.2.0 and by now they are to os11 and I think they are ready for prime-time  

For the rare few with an XO-1.5 is a no-brainer. With the new chrome video driver Flash works. Period!

But for the XO-1 things are not bad at all either . Boots faster than the last official OLPC build or dextrose, yum woks fine and even the new flash 10.2 is tolerable (barely ). There are few minor glitches here and there but nothing major.
I would say is ready for wider use!

The other nice thing about the F14 builds is Autoplus that allows a single click installation of all the "non-free" software not coming with Fedora. In OLPC builds you need to "yum install usermode" first for the program to work. Make sure you are in Gnome, to see and use Autoplus

The only down side is that on on the XO-1 after I install just Flash, Midori and few audio codecs, was only 110MB of space left . So you definitely need an SDcard if you are to have anything more on your XO-1 and configure it to hold /home. If the card has a swap partition is even better

[canin]

installed it and am just wondering. evidence for developement in software/linux everywhere.
but networkmanager is hanging the whole, isnt startable, is hanging when started, stops abrupt.
 

[kimtoufectis]

I installed it and sit on the fence in terms of whether it's ready for prime time.  I have nto had the network connecctivity glitches another user reports, but I have not been able to get jabber.sugarlabs.org to connect me with other sugar users.

Without detailed instructions for how to try it, I no idea how to explore Mav's claims that flash is tolerable on the xo-1, so nothing to report there.  Browse has a home key, a plus, but no tabs, as the Dextrose 406 version I've been using for many months does.

Other features I miss:  no built-in command to back up or restore my journal to/from a USB or memory card drive, and Jukebox doesn't play .pls files as it did under Dextrose.

I'm no programmer, but Linux sure seems a cranky language if a new version of the OS prompts the re-emergence of problems someone solved in a prior version...
 

[mavrothal]

Kim,
F14 is still a development release. Should get into its final form around early April and finalized (bug-wise) late May.
However, I do think is good enough for using now (as oppose to 4 months ago) and hopefully report bugs for fixing. I did not say that is better than current official builds from OLPC or SL (though in some aspects it is).

Backup and restore apps can be installed and I do not think is a big deal that they do not come pre-installed.
Regarding jabber I do not know, but if you configured it correctly and still does not work, please file a bug (you shouldn't expect to have the exact same pre-configuration as the SL builds though).
Regarding Flash, just install it, try some videos or games and see for yourself. On the XO-1 is not related to the F14 as much but rather to Flash 10.2. On the XO-1.5 is also Flash10.2 but mostly the new video driver.

Regarding Linux... I wouldn't generalize but what you say may not be far from true. Hackers prefer the glorious job of a brand new version (even if it re-introduces or pushes under the carpet some old bugs) than the tedious  and unrewarding "bug-fixing".
However, I'm afraid that with the current choices of OLPC and SugarLabs the option is either to have an un-supported infrastructure (F11) and spend their time backporting any new features, or keep with the 6-month release cycle and modify Sugar accordingly. Actually Dextrose is going to move to F14 (or F15?) pretty soon too and it is conceivable that Sugar 0.94 or 0.96 may not even be able to run on F11!

So using F14 builds (even without a jabber for the moment)  may not be such bad idea. They only way to weed-out  any bugs is for people to use it
Of course if you are happy with what you have now, there is no need for change...

[kimtoufectis]

Mav--

I'm always willing to try a new OS, especially if it's Sugar, whether or not it's ready for prime time...since my first comment I tried out the pre-installed activities.  One complaint:  the OS is so large the Speak program can't run its "Ask Sara a question" feature.  I recall your warning that swap is critical; can you point me at instructions about how to set up a swap file on my 4 gb SD card?

Any thoughts about why JukeBox won't play the .ogg or .pls files it would under Dextrose?

Last time I left Dextrose (with the integrated backup and restore) I followed your advice and installed those features as add-ons, but the add-on couldn't read my prior back-ups, so back to starting from scratch with the new OS.  Avoiding that was my sole use for backup and restore.

As for Flash, "just install it" presumes a good deal more sophistication than I have.  Do I download a file and then install it, or can I just type "yum install flash" in the Terminal and sit back?  [I visited the Adobe Test Flash site and it thinks I have 10.1.999.0 installed, thought I gather that's a misinterpretation of Gnash?]

As for the jabber, in the past I went to the control panel, selected Networks, typed in "jabber.sugarlabs.org" and the community appeared in my neighborhood.  Any other steps to try?

--Kim

[mavrothal]

Kim,
regarding flash and jukebox see my Fedoraplus comment in the first post. Installing flash, codecs, skype etc is just a click away
Regarding backup/restore I just did it migrating my son's XO from dextrose to os11. Had no problem. Just make sure you press the "restore journal" button when the activity opens (the UI is not very intuitive but then is only one button )
Regarding Jabber, I'm not into chat, irc, sms, tweet etc at all so I do not know anything about it . Hopefully Anna will be reading this...
Finally about swap, if the link at the end of the first post does not help you, I would guess to "yum install gparted" (is a GUI disk editor) and use it to format your card.

[kimtoufectis]

Mav--

I'm giving this my best effort, but I'm in over my head.  I stepped through your message, trying out FedoraPlus for Flash.  I successfully installed whatever was needed in advance, then Flash downloaded but didn't install properly (copied and pasted the code, but it failed without explanation and the Adobe Test Flash confirmed it still thought I was running 10.1.999.0).  In retrospect I figure I was already out of memory, but the error sure didn't point me there.

On to swap:  I waded through the screens and screens of explanation...written at a level far beyond my ability, so on to gparted.  More failure:  it wouldn't download and kept trying sucessive mirrors, with the same "failed" message; at this point I conclude that I'm out of memory.

Back to the beginning, not ready to say die, I reflased with os11 and immediately yum installed gparted.  Though it shows up in the Applications menu it fails to open from there; it only runs from a rooted terminal (hey, give me credit for figuring that out at least)  but clicking help file closed the app and poking around the menus didn't point me at anything like swap.

So I've given it my stranger-in-dataland best and keep coming up empty.  Please understand:  I have never partitioned a disk, and even if someone did so for me I have no idea of how to get the xo to use it as swap (which, of course, I have also never even used).  I need another level of direction...

But I would take exception to the idea that os11 is ready for its closeup, at least for those of us lacking experience with creating partitions and swap.

--Kim

[mavrothal]

Kim,
sorry for your troubles, but don't give up
I find that googling "unknownapp tutorial/howto/manual" usually gives you a good answer in the first 5 links.
For gparted is really simple though because when it opens the window where you select your new partition the first tab asks primary or extended (primary) and the second the file system (linux-swap).
You are right though that there is a bug that will not run gparted (and other admin level GUI apps) from the desktop. Since the XO does not have password for su/sudo, some apps do not like that.
Regarding Fedoraplus, I had no problems but I think I hacked something first I'll check...
All I can tell though is that I realized early that "Linux user" and "Nooby" does not exist specially if you want to go a step further of what is already there. In machines like the XO that has so many memory/storage-size/performance limitations, is impossible.

[mavrothal]

Regarding Fedoraplus, I had no problems but I think I hacked something first I'll check...

Well... I had
I informed the developer and said he is going to fix it in the next release.
Till then you can get an XO-1-friendly version of fedoraplus that I made, from http://www.datafilehost.com/download-018d99c2.html
Download the file and then from the terminal first remove the original fedoraplus version

Code:

sudo rpm -e fedoruplus

and then install the one you downloaded

Code:

sudo rpm -i /path_to_file/fedoraplus-1.0-3.fc14.noarch

Edit: fedoraplus-1.0-4.fc14.noarch and later works fine on the XO-1

[kimtoufectis]

Mav--

I haven't given up yet, but I'm mighty discouraged.  I think I created  a 2 GB swa[ file as you suggested, but now I don't se my 4 GB SD card icon on my desktop, so I don't know whether it worked or not.

I understand your point that one is always a noob in the face of a limited machine such as the xo, but I also think you don't remember quite what it is to be a true noob.  Let me illustrate.

You say "download this xo-friendly version of Fedoraplus" and it saved to the Downloads file.  Since I've reflashed since I downloaded the prior version I didn't have an old version to remove, so on to your second command to install the new version.  Then I fail, with a "no such directory" message.  I cd \Downloads and ls and sure enough, there it is, so I try again with the same failure outcome.

I tried a couple more times, substituting new things in for "path_to_file" with more of the same outcomes., since I am truly a linux noob and you, my friend and advisor, just feel like a noob now and again.

Sooo...maybe I've correctly partitioned the SD, but I doubt it.  And in any case even if I have, I still don't have FedoraPlus...

Can we try this again?

--Kim

[mavrothal]

Can we try this again?
--Kim

OK, lets try.
fresh install (actually os12 is out )
gnome desktop
open terminal
Make sure you have a swap partition

Code:

fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0

Make sure it is used

Code:

free

if not

Code:

sudo nano /etc/fstab
#add the line
/dev/mmcblk0p2 none swap defaults 0 0 # see first command where exactly swap is
# then ctrl+X, yes to save and exit
sudo swapon -a # /dev/mmcblk0p2
free # you should see a line with "Swap:" now

Download with firefox the modified fedoraplus

Code:

cd ~/Downloads
ls # to make sure fedoraplus-1.0-3.fc14.noarch.rpm is there
sudo rpm -ivvh fedoraplus-1.0-3.fc14.noarch.rpm # will be  along output now
sudo yum install usermode
fedoraplus #also from the desktop icon

If it does not work, report the output of all the above commands
Careful with typos (yours or mine )

Regarding the swap partition, I never use more than 256 MB.
When you partition your card with Gparted spare 4MB empty (not partitioned!) in the beginning of your card, then add first your ext2/ext3/vfat partition and use the last 256 MB of the card for swap.
The problem with formatting is that there are no "standard instructions" since every disk/card is different and the formatting options many. So you have to get a level of comprehension of what is going on to get it right.
See if this may be a good example for you.

[kimtoufectis]

Downloaded os12 and reflashed.

Since I hit memory limits quickly with os11, I'm reasonably swap isn't set up, at least not properly; when I go into the terminal and type "fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0" it says it doesn't exist.  I type "free" and three or four lines of a table are produced with the discouraging last line Swap: followed by 0's under the total, used, and free columns.  Plainly swap isn't working.

So I try your next set of commands.  Your format is not known to me, but I remember just enough BASIC from programming an Apple IIe back in the early 1980's to figure that the # symbol is a comment to the programmer, as opposed to something to type as written (maybe right?).  I get into nano.  Without instructions as to where to add the line, I go to the bottom of the file (maybe right?) and type the new line, then ctrl-X, "Y" to save changes.  Without instructions again on what to call it, I let it save over itself by accepting its default name (maybe right?).

Now I type the "sudo swapon..." and get "swapon:  /dev/mmcblk0p2: read swap header failed:  Invalid argument".  Typing "free" returns the same discouraging three zeros as before.

So the scorecard to date:  all efforts failed, and I'm not even sure if I'm following your instructions properly in three places just in tonight's effort.  If you're still confident this is ready for testing by the unanointed, I'm still willing to try...

I think, though, that I'm going to need new instructions.

[mavrothal]

Kim,
you are doing great!
Yes hash (#) means comment from now on till the end of the line. Type it on not does not matter.
Where you put the swap file line, does not matter either.
The file that you save is the file that you open (/etc/fstab).
The issue is that you do not have any swap partition in your card. As a matter of fact you do not see the card at all! That's what

fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0" it says it doesn't exist

suggests!
Is the card visible in the Frame? If it is, what is the output of the "df" command? Do you see a line among others that look  like that

Code:

/dev/mmcblk0p1         3574428   1894480   1498376  56% /media/card_name

?
(I assume here that your card has a swap partition and another ext2/ext3/vfat partition )
So the problem is really the card partitioning for  which I can only suggest... study. Or maybe get a person that has done it before to help you out in person, in your local linux/XO club.

[kimtoufectis]

The card disappeared from the frame when I used the gparted to create a swap.  Felt pretty lost in that process, neither having even seen it done before, nor having advice on how big to make it (I chose 2 GB as half the 4GB card; after the fact you told me mine was bigger than you would recommend).

I also had no advice as to what to do with the rest of the space on the card; I figured if some of it was primary the remainder might be the alternative choice (I think that was called "extended"?).

Since then I've reflashed with os12, so if we've concluded that the swap hasn't worked perhaps it's again time to "yum install gparted"?

If so, my two questions are how big to make it, and what (if anything) to do with the rest of the card via gparted or via any other means...

[mavrothal]

If so, my two questions are how big to make it, and what (if anything) to do with the rest of the card via gparted or via any other means...

Kim,
here is some not detailed instructions.

Get gparted
Check if it sees your card from the application interface. Should show as /dev/mmcblk0 in the upper right cornel button.
If not it means that your card is in pretty bad shape.. Reformat your card in a windows machine using Formatter 3.
This will make the whole card one fat32 partition.

If geparted sees the card make sure that is not visible in the frame.
If it is, use the frame to unload it. You can not format a mounted card (that's why it shows the keys in front of the partitions in gparted)

Now from gparted select the card and erase any partitions that it may has, so the whole card shows as unulocated

Then click "New" and make a new primary partition starting from 4MB and going to the end of the card, minus 257 MB.
Format your partition from the "Partition->Format to" menu.
If you want this partition to be visible in windows/mac/linux machines set  the format to fat32. If not set it to ext3.
I would recommend ext3 since you can set it up latter as your /home and have a lot more space than the limited 150MB left after installing os12.
(see this post for a howto on setting up /home on the card)

Then make another 256 MB primary partition  and set the partition format to linux-swap (some little space should be left at the end of the card).
I find 256MB of swap sufficient.
Be careful, gparted is going to try to start from the first block using the 4MB left in the beginning of the card. Make sure (tell it) that your swap partition starts after your first ext2/etx3/fat32 patition.

Then click "Apply". Will take some time.
It should be OK now.

Then go back and try df, fdisk -l, setting up fstab, swapon etc.