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[mavrothal]

As I mentioned in a previous post my experience with SoaS on my old laptop was a really nice one. So I thought to give it a try in the XO to see how Sugar 0.84 works on the original hardware. Surprisingly is not possible to get SoaS using the XO since the recommended <a href="http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation>Fedora based method[/url] needs Fedora 10 and it I did not manage to replicate it in the XO that uses Fedora 9. Also inspite the claim that SoaS for windows will boot the XO if not used in a windows machine first, it did not work for me.

Fortunately somewhere "hidden" in laptop.org there is a list of modified SoaS images that can be used to boot the XO either from a stick or after installation in the internal NAND.  So I tried them.
The USB version requires an 1.998GB or bigger stick (my first 1.97 "2GB" stick failed) and after installation leaves only 68MB free (!) so I flashed my NAND with the suggested image and surprisingly took only 400MB. First a notice: I have firmware q2e33 in my XO (instead of the recommended q2e32) and unless I hit <esc> to get to the OFW prompt SoaS stays behind the boot animation screen and you never see it! Hopefully this will be corrected soon.
After that small hiccup there are some surprises. First you get to a screen that you can choose between booting to Gnome desktop or sugar! (though the layout is a bit messed up). Both work, but both feel like apha or early beta versions. The Gnome Desktop is far-behind  Ubuntu  and DebXO but this is not really relevant and is nice to have the option.
Sugar is similar to the one for the PC version but not the same. OLPC hardware is nor really recognized! None of the game buttons and screen rotation work and even the journal button is not going to get you in the (improved) journal. Software-update do not work and the browser (now named Surf and up to version 106) can not be used to download and install activities from laptop.org. At least I failed to installed 3-4 the I tried. The included activities work but is the bare minimum. Even Etoys is missing! When you connect to the wireless network all available networks show as connected in the neighborhood view but in the frame you see a gray circle. The stick version also fails to keep the XO name colors and network settings and you have to start from the beginning every time.
Needless to say that I quickly flashed back to my saved 0.82 version with considerable disappointment. 

SoaS is really nice in my PC, why not at least as nice (if not better) in my XO, where it clearly looks as an afterthought?

Maybe in 0.84.1 or 0.84.2...

[Mike Lee]

I too have enjoyed the speed of SoaS on Windows machines. We are in a precarious neutral zone between the split of OLPC and Sugar, and Sugar Labs needs all the support they can get to sustain its momentum. Thank you for yet another valuable post!

Mike

[mavrothal]

Sugar Labs needs all the support they can get to sustain its momentum.

After further review....you are right!

[mavrothal]

Maybe in 0.84.1 or 0.84.2...

So a new SoaS version is out and I gave it a try on the XO, installing  <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation/OLPC#Option_1:_Run_v0.84_of_Sugar_on_a_Stick_from_an_SD_card_or_external_USB> as suggested (windows version)[/url].
It is paramount to use the LiveUSBcreator version 3.6 or higher as older version are not XO-aware and will not work. As noted in that page, do not boot a PC with the stick before you boot the XO. Then it works fine!
Just remember if you use newer firmware (q2e30+) to hit <esc> after start and get to the OFW prompt and the type "boot" to boot. Otherwise SoaS will stay behind the boot animation and you will never see it!

SoaS on the XO boots really fast and you get to the familiar home screen, which is already populated with a number of applications. They all work.
The immediately noticeable difference is the improved journal that now prompts for  naming/renaming and addition of comments and tags for easier and more "logical" searches. Also allows you to choose with which application you open the file with (assuming that more than one can do it) and to send the file (assuming tat you have a properly configured machine). The other nice thing is that if you open an application opens the last journal instance (assuming you did not rename it to something else), so you do not get 300 terminal entries... Of course if you want to save something eg a bookmark as a Browse entry, you have to rename it appropriately. 
The other major change is under the hood. Is the full fedora 10 foundation that allows for less complicated installation of mainstream Linux application.
The third nice feature is the "view source" option that allows you to see the code for any application and modify it if you want. Is similar to the Develop activity in but now is "just there"
Also a number of activities are updated to newer versions (that will not necessarily run under update 8.2, 8.2.1).

A couple of nuisances. Mic light is on and speakers do not work. Open the terminal type "alsamixer -V all" and mute (type "m") V-REFOUT (mic light) and External (speakers!). Also it will not shutdown. Goes to "system halted" and stays there. Just press the power button for 3 sec.

Should you just forget the stick and install it as the main OS in your XO, then?
Unless you are an XO developer, NO.

SoaS is totally unaware of the XO-hardware. Besides the two little things above, game buttons will not work (only the "O" game button will get you to Journal!) Many function buttons will not work (journal, screen brightness, frame button). The battery monitor will not work (just shows the initial level and never updates). The camera will not work (even if you install the not-included Record activity). The SDcard and USB are not detected and if you mount them manually they do not show in the Journal. There is no power management (and the relevant control panel) and no software update panel. Some old activities will not work (but that's the activity developer's job I guess). Your hacks are likely not to work (at least till you find the right paths and still then is not certain).
So unless you are ready for a lot of tinkering or development, keep it on the stick.

The major goal of Sugar 0.84.x is testing and developing. That's what you should do with it. It is clear that the XO was not at all on the scope of SugarLabs at this stage. Being the first SoaS version the apparent goal was basic functionality and broad implementation. 

The only feature that I think should be included in 0.84(.2?) is the ability to use an XO-aware stick to boot a PC (mine stuck at eth1 configuration and then messed up the XO network settings). This is not possible with the current version of SoaS/LiveUSBcreator. Implementation will make work a bit easier for developers and certainly "allow the parents to see what their kid is doing" with their SoaS on another computer.

Now, if someone develops (a) package(s) that you could just "yum install" and  regain the/some XO functionality, would be great! Should not be very difficult. The keybindings and battery monitor would be a good start, and camera (or a compatible version of Record activity) should follow soon after.

Till then I can only hope that Sugar 0.86, among other things, will also be XO-aware. Hopefully, SugarLabs will not do the same to the XO as OLPC did. OLPC abandoned Sugar development on the XO and although you can find ways to justify or explain it, it did not resonated very well. Similarly one can think of reasons to justify or explain SugarLabs not developing for the XO but this will be equally bad. If nothing else there is almost a million KIDS with an XO out there. They deserve better.
I'm not suggesting that SugarLabs will stop developing Sugar for the XO, I'm just saying that since current actions do not contradict it,  I would like at least to see the opposite statement in black and white somewhere. Unless, if we are to believe that they also think that "dual boot" (Windows) should be the way to go on the milions (?) of XOs out there. I hope not.

[mavrothal]

There is now a SoaS2 availble for download and installation on PCs and the XO.
I tried it on the XO hopping for the best. It will not boot!... It freezes immediatelly during initrd0.img loading.
I tried it 4 times formatting my stick in between and failed every time.
Anybody had any luck? or SoaS2 (Fedora 11beta ) is not approprate for the XO, even if it is the currently recomended download? Has anyone tested it on a G1G1 XO?...

[mavrothal]

While the Windows installation page keeps pointing on the SoaS2 image, 0.84.1 SoaS1 final  is out.
All changes are under the hood and make no difference for the XO. The only improvement compared to the previous version is while the XO-aware stick is still not going to run on a PC (mine got stuck in eth0 instead of the previous eth1 sticky point) will not mess up your XO network settings.
So I guess the new network applet made some difference but is not quite there yet.
Maybe 0.84.2 then?....

[ChristophD]

From Walter Bender's latest Sugar-Digest:

===Tech Talk ===

We had in impromptu meeting on IRC to discuss the outstanding issues
in regard to future Fedora/Sugar support for the OLPC XO-1. The list
of work items is shorter than I would have thought and many of these
items already have teams of people working on them. We discussed as a
reasonable target being able to release these items in time for Fedora
12.
# mesh
# activation security
# Rainbow (activity security)
# activity update control panel
# power management
# library for browsing content bundles
# automatic display/keyboard language setting
# special keys on the keyboard (brightness, audio, ..)
# using USB keys in the Journal
# olpc-update
# customization key
# lease security
# UL warning screen at shutdown

If I'm not mistaken Fedora 12 isn't due until autumn of '09 so it looks like we might have to wait a bit until we can really get the best out of running the latest Sugar on the XO...

[mavrothal]

Well... given that the F11-based SoaS2 is worse on the XO  than the F10 based SoaS1 and that F11 is due next month, I would say "Happy 2010 to all the XO1 users out there"....

If I may ask another question though... In your OLPC overview page 9 "New Software options" state (with no ref) "Microsoft NOW offers the Windows XP operating system for the XO-1" (!?!) Can you elaborate?.....

[ChristophD]

If I may ask another question though... In your OLPC overview page 9 "New Software options" state (with no ref) "Microsoft NOW offers the Windows XP operating system for the XO-1" (!?!) Can you elaborate?.....

Well, according to Microsoft Windows XP for the XO has been available since mid-May 2008 (press release) but reports of it being in use have been scarce, except for the one mentioned here (Peru) and here (on Colombia) which all emerged in late 2008.

So in the grand scheme of things this development is still fairly recent.

I hope that answers your question...

Christoph

[mavrothal]

Well, according to Microsoft Windows XP for the XO has been available since mid-May 2008 (press release) but reports of it being in use have been scarce, except for the one mentioned here (Peru) and here (on Colombia) which all emerged in late 2008.

So in the grand scheme of things this development is still fairly recent.

I hope that answers your question...

Christoph

No, not really...  These are more "potential" and PoP, than actual implementation.
Is there any info that XOs in any given school/field-setting are running XP NOW?...

[ChristophD]

No, not really...  These are more "potential" and PoP, than actual implementation.
Is there any info that XOs in any given school/field-setting are running XP NOW?...

Ah, now I see your point...

You're right, there's a total lack of information on whether and where XPXOs are actually being used.

Then again, Peru seems to have distributed more than 100,000 XOs and how much actual information do we have about that?

In the end the fact remains that Microsoft can offer XP on the XO which it previously couldn't.

[mavrothal]

I tried yesterday's SoaS-2 image on the XO. The good news is that on a FAT32 formatted stick will boot. The bad news is that is almost unusable on the XO. Is really bugling the machine down. Is huge (1.4GB deflated), VERY slow, Browse will crash if you try to load a page,  now the alsamixer shows only the master and capture controls, so no sound and the mic light stays on, will still not boot your PC after the XO and vice versa, bounce will not start (also on the PC) etc. It has 100 precesses open just after boot and uses happily 1GB of RAM in my PC and starts swapping to keep happy...
The only improvement is that now will see your other sticks/cards (not the NAND) but if you try to open them in the journal will hang. OK from the terminal though.
If the final release will be indeed on April 10 it needs 5 sleepless days and nights or just the "but NOT for the XO" label.
The way it goes though by the time F11 SoaS will work on the XO will be abandoned for the F12 version...

[mavrothal]

Soas(2)-beta 0.84.2 RELAESE came out yesterday.
Will boot on the XO (Windows, FAT32 formatted stick, LiveUSB creator 3.6+) in ~4 minutes (~10min the fist run, so be patient) and applications will slowly run, though Browse will crash if you try to download a simple page like wiki.sugarlabs.org
There is no sound, no video recording, no battery monitor, no power management, no software update, (mostly) not usable XO-specific keys and will halt but not shutdown unless you press the power button.
So, "only testers and developers" are welcome.

Hopefully, new users in other hardware will approach or exceed the 1 million XO-1 users left in the waiting room. They have to wait till "someone" submits the XO specific patches to kernel.org, they get tested and accepted, passed in the Fedora XX release, complemented with additional XO patches and arrive in an XO-suitable SoaS. Judging from the os801 state that since Feb 25 is still a candidate (for a week!), this may take some time...
Alternativelly you can hope that the lone ranger working on the rawhide-xo will manage a small miracle.
I was actually wondering if the  XO-2 will arrive (eg finalized as a design) first and SoaS for the XO-1 will get abandoned altogether, or SoaS for the XO-1 will make it at some point before that. Anybody wants to take bets?...

[Emmadw]

Yes, I've had fairly similar experience of the latest version (downloaded yesterday - April 15th) on an OLPC; v. slow & the browser keeps crashing.

I've yet to try it out on a PC, as both the PCs I've got at home are quite ancient & don't let me boot from a USB stick. I could burn the CD to allow it to boot from a USB - or I could just wait till I get back to work & a laptop that boots easily from USB. Have chosen the latter!

[ChristophD]

mavrothal, thanks so much for keeping us posted on your findings... :-)